Originally Posted by Chthon

I paid a visit to Tombs for the first time in a long while yesterday. Shortly after I found a b/p PUG, we picked up two necros who were looking for "HM fast pull." At the time, I wondered what "fast pull" was, but I guessed it must have been compatible with b/p since the group leader took them. I was a little bit apprehensive about HM since we only had 2 splinters, but everyone seemed gung-ho about HM, so I kept my mouth shut.

The more talkative and bossy of the necros started picking on the monk, whose bar wasn't great, but wasn't terrible either, despite flashing a pretty dubious MM bar himself.

Once we got inside the necro started running around like a lunatic aggroing everything in sight. The pets/minions held for a minute or so, and I got a few good splinters in, then everything collapsed and we died a terrible, terrible death. I'm pretty sure some of us never even made it off the first staircase.

After a quick replacement of the other splinter who discoed (leaving me as the only splinter), and some random build changing by the necros, someone (I think I can guess who) ran us into the portal before we were ready, leaving the group with no orders necro. This time we were saved from a wipe by the necro running out of healing range and dying, giving me and the R/Mo's a chance to clean up the monsters already aggroed before he aggroed even more. After getting rezzed a couple of times, he and his buddy cursed at the poor monk and ragequit. So the group just kinda disbanded halfway through the first room.

Now, I'm left wondering: What the hell was up with those necros? Clearly, they're jerks for the way they treated the monk. And what about "fast pull"? Is that merely a premise for griefing (as in "I'm not trying to get the party killed with overaggro; that's how a fast pull works; honest!"), or is it a new tombs cookie cutter that actually works if done right?

If it is a new cookie cutter, could someone post the proper builds and the proper tactics? Since, obviously, I didn't see either during my encounter with "fast pull."

So, if anyone knows what the deal is with "fast pull" in tombs, please post.

(Epilogue: As poorly as this little adventure went, I did get something out of it. I killed a dryder that dropped a purple Q9 eternal shield for the bossy, nasty necro. Then I kindly rezzed him (again) so that he could get it. He didn't bother. When he ragequit, I picked it up. Turns out it's got pretty nice mods for a non-inscribable shield )

Originally Posted by Kusandaa

Well... for doing fast pulls in ToPK myself, I swear that this isn't the way it usually goes.

Fast runs mean bigger aggro, and not all groups are able to deal with it. Sometimes the positioning of the groups will differ. Pretty much relies on the puller, and how the MM can keep up. And if your b/p's are good enough to res pets VERY often, your monk doesn't have a lot of job aside healing the puller.

When I run with mostly alliance groups, I don't even use my ranger anymore - I go N/R with Barrage, MoP, barbs, interrupt, speed boost, res, pet/pet res. I've noticed faster runs on my N/R than my R/Rt... because MoP deals a LOT of dmg; at 15 curses, MoP deals 40 dmg per hit - count arrows from rangers, pets when locked, and minions. It works like a wonder on huge groups, and reduced the time. In general, it takes our group 5 or 6 minutes to clear the first level, while most groups will do from 7 to 10 minutes. I even got it down to 4 (our MM was drunk too, ROFL).

In total, a run will take me anywhere from 50 minutes to 1:10 hour, average group takes 1:30-ish to clear, counting leavers, AFKs, etc. I know people who wind up with less than 50 minutes, but I don't think I'm THAT fast, lol... one day... x]

EDIT: I can post builds of what our alliance runs if you wanna, or even arrange some kinda run. Love Tombs x].

Originally Posted by Chthon

I get the impression that "fast pull" is nothing more than plain old B/P with MoP tossed in and aggressive pulling. Is that right? As someone who was working MoP into MM builds for Tombs way back before Factions, I'm glad to see it finally getting some recognition.

As for those necros I encountered: (1) I take it that the MM doing the pulling is not normal? (2) If we had somehow survived, I'd figure his huge aggro forced us on pace to finish the first level in about 2 min... He literally had everything except the final mob at the top of the far stairs upset with us all at once. Overaggro even by "fast pull" standards?

Originally Posted by Kusandaa

Not really, tbh. That's what -I- run, but I've seen other fast pulling groups with a typical b/p set - no MoP needed or anything. It's... controlled overaggro I guess, but you DO need an exp team, especially in HM.

What you described there was an overaggro even by a standard fast pull group. MM aggroing something in ToPK is NEVER normal - that's why there's a puller. Second, by now he probably has very low minions, and expects too much of the b/p's. Yes they deal a lot of damage, but the MM is there for BODYBLOCKING. With no MM, the possibilities of finishing it are pretty low, even for an exp group in HM, since the pets don't last as long as 10 minions.

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

The idea of casters pulling in tombs is horrible, these white horses interrupt the living crap out of the first thing they see.

Originally Posted by Kusandaa

Meh, I successfully fast pull with N/R and Rt/R; they're casters, but they act like rangers. It's pretty fun to be out there as a necro - it's just a matter of timing spells and keeping your pet alive or dead. Nothing more annoying than a pet that dies in the middle of Splinter or MoP. Ugh. Same goes for R/N and R/Rt, TBH. The only drawback pulling with my N/R setup could be armor (Tormentor's is your friend), especially vs. elemental dmg. But if you're careful there's not a lot of problems.

I was gonna say I would never dare pulling as a caster, but I was once in an horrible PUG where I had to pull a few mobs as a monk since NO EFFING ONE wanted to pull and everyone was getting really annoyed. Managed to keep everyone alive too x].

But as a MM... no way I'd pull. I'm nuts but I have my limits x].